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Mary
0:00:00
Something that businesses take for granted, that they need to stop taking f⛦or granted right this
minute, is🐎 that if you confuse, you lose. People do not buy the products t🌟hat are communicated the
most cleveﷺrly. 𒊎They buy the products that are communicated the clearest. Donald Miller says this as
part of St👍oryBrand. If you are not, you will lose every single time, and most likely to one of yourไ top
competitors.
Mary
0:00:29
So this is something you cannot ignore. Your messagi๊ng has to be a top priority and clarified as
soon as possible.
Alex
0:00:36
Welcome back to Endless Customers. My name is Alex Winter 🥃and today we are joined by Mary
Brown, our lead web strat✅egist here at Impact Mary. Welcome back to the show.
Mary
0:00:52
Hey, thanks Alex.
Mary
0:00:53
Good to be here.
Alex
0:00:54
Great to have you here. And today we're talking about something really cool𝓡. We're ♔talking about
StoryBrand, which is a great book, great framework. Donald Miller, we🦄're big fans. But I think there's
a lot of people out there that don't know about Story🤪Brand. So before we get i♛nto like the nitty gritty
pieces of how to implement and roll out and
Alex
0:01:07
like use StoryBrand to your advantage with your business, can you just like high level tell us 🍸what
StoryBrand's all about.
Mary
0:01:13
Yeah. So the StoryBrand framework is a marketing strategy 💦tool ba♍sed on storytelling principles. So
it r🎀evolves around the idea that people naturally connect with stories. And it allows you to leverage
stories
Mary
0:01:26
to help people emotio🐼nally connect to your mꦺessaging.
Alex
0:01:30
Nice, very nice. And why is that important? Because I feel like🉐 a lot of businesse🍎s, it's all about P&L.
It's all about making money, 🍌sales, b🎐ringing in leads, and it's very black and white, and it almost
loses that emotional piece

 

Alex
0:01:43
that really is 👍the story brand piece that people connect with, and that peo🌄ple make buying decisions
on, because ꧙we know people make buying decisions based off their emotions.
Mary
0:01:50
Absolutely, and the reason that it works is because it's base💝d in certain principles of story🌄telling, and
it's grounded in, we'🤪ll say, ℱthree main principles that I like to hearken back to. One of them is that
you are 🍎not the hero of the story. Your customer is the hero of the story.
Mary
0:02:09
And this totally flips the script, right? You have to make ꧒sure that your prospect is centered on the
story. Next is that you have to set the stakes. So a lot of people kind of recoil at this a little bit a🗹n🍎d
they say, I don't want to get negative,
Mary
0:02:22
I don't want to set stakes. But if people don't know what's at stake by not working witౠh you, then
they're not set up for the value proposition. The𒐪y're really not.
Alex
0:02:30
Right, so true.
Mary
0:02:32
And the last one is that your company is the guide. So if our prospect is the hero of the st🍃ory, you
are the guide. And it's all about trust and building trust with that prospect, that potentia🍸l customer,
that you c🏅an guide them to that outcome that they're looking for. And this is where all the emotion
comes in꧅to play because you are basinဣg it on that trust, being the guide to their hero, setting the
stakes,
Mary
0:02:56
all that good stuff, and it works.
Alex
0:02:59
It definitely works. And I think that's also why we love Storybrand and the♊ whole framework here at
Impact because it pairs very well with They Ask, You Answer in the sense that w📖e're trying to builℱd
trust. And we do that through communication
Alex
0:03:10
and we d𝕴o that through telling a good story and conveying our brand messaging in an authentic and
real way.
Mary
0:03:17
Yeah, absolutely. Very cool.

 

Alex
0:03:19
So, you work with a ton of companies, you work with a ton of brands, all ꦫdifferent industries, B2B,
B2C, when it comes to buildi🐻ng their website𒁃s, redesigning their websites, helping them fix things
that are broken with their websites, whatever the case may be, you sꦯeem t꧋o do it all. How does
StoryBrand play into your approach and how you handle these sorts🌼 of s❀ituations on your
day-to-day.
Mary
0:03:40
ꦉThere are so many reasons why StoryBrand is perfect for websites and why it lends really well to
implementing on a website𝓰. So one of them is that websites are𝕴 all about crafting a specific message
and you can really tailor your audience on different pages. I mean your story on your home pag🤡e
might be different on a solution page and you're able to tell those unique storiꦇes on those pages. So
it works really well. Totally.
Mary
0:04:05
Anot♎her is structure. So websites are inherently structured, right? You have headings, you have
body copy, you have calls to action▨. And StoryBrand is really process-driven for 😼how you're moving
people through the buyer's journey, and that structure allows for that process to really be buil꧒t
beautifully within a website.
Alex
0:04:23
Right. That makes sense.
Mary
0:04:25
Okay. Another is the visual element. So, believe it or not, storytelling very💫 much has to do with
visuals as well because visuals are so great at evoking emotion🦩. So, think about all t🧜he photos, all
the videos that you're going to put on your website. They can ಌꦆreally help tell that story and evoke
more emotion in ways that just written words
Mary
0:04:43
can't.
Alex
0:04:44
And they can enhance the written words as well.
12
0:04:47
Yeah.
Alex
0:04:48
Which is 🅰why it's important to not just go to iStock and grab a bunch of random photos. Not that
iStock isn't great, but pulling random photos that aren'ಞt your people, that aren't your brand, that
aren't your company.

 

Mary
0:04:58
For real.
Alex
0:04:59
Doesn't seem like the right move, right?
Mary
0:05:00
For real.
Mary
0:05:01
We 🌺tell people that all the time, an♔d I'm glad you said, you know, not that iStock isn't bad. We always
✅advocate for a mix, right? Youꦓ wanna have a mix. You wanna have some stock photography, that's
fine,
Mary
0:05:09
but you wanna have your people in there too, so they can see that we are humജ🦩an. We feel
emotions. We connect with people. And that helps💜 bu🎃ild that trust as well to see that we are real
people who service real people.
Alex
0:05:21
Yeah. And real people also, we've been usinཧg this technology for a while now. So the phones and
the internet and all this stuff, especially with AI, people are sꦕmarter now and they know w🐻hen it's not
an authentic photo. People know when it's a stock phoꦍto or a stock video or it's maybe a computer
generated type of thing. People 🧔are getting a lot more savv🐼y, as Jack Sparrow would say.
Mary
0:05:42
They are savvy, and I'm glad you brought up how long we🌼've been used to 😼this type of thing.
Because when you think about storytelling, stories were painte💦d on cave walls. That's how long
storytelling ha😼s been part of being a human being and how we connect to other human beings.
Mary
0:05:57
So that's why this is a tale of old as time. It's 🅷totally timeless. It will ne𝓡ver go away, and that's why it
works.🐼 But another re🔥ason why this is so great on websites is because websites should focus on
benefits. And I say should b🌳ecaus𓆏e I can't tell you
Mary
0:06:12
how often I look at a website and they just feature dump, right? It's like, we have this, we have t🍸hat,
we have this feature, we have th🌠at feature. But when you tell a story, you ♍need to talk about the
benefits.
Mary
0:06:23
You need ♉to paint the picture of how it makes life better. That is such a huge part of StoryBrand, and
a website should do that i𝓀f you're doing it right.

 

Alex
0:06:32
Yeah, it shou💯ld. And it goes back to what you were s✨aying, where I think a lot of companies, and I've
done this in the past too, I'm a small business💃 owner, where it's all about me. It's like, look at all the
cool things I can do,
Alex
0:06:40
look at my degrees, look at all my awards, look at all the stuff and things, but that doesn't tell a 💯story.
You know, it is just a lot about♎ you and not a lot about how you can help people and what your
services provide to help people get what they need♕ because they're looking for what the🅘y want.
Alex
0:06:54
And that's a fundamental thing.
Mary
0:06:55
Yes. And we're absolutely going to talkꩵ about that in messaging. The last thing I want to say about
why🌺 websites are so perfect for implementing StoryBrand is the ca♏ll to action. So that's the purpose
of a 𒅌website is to call someone to a🎀ction and make them do a thing. And StoryBrand helps you
identify what tho👍se actions should be. And it's such a huge part of the website, it's such a huge part
Mary
0:07:17
of clarifying youဣr message that it works pe꧂rfectly.
Alex
0:07:20
Yeah, no, that's a really good point. And we call it the one tဣhing, right? When we're talking,🥀 they ask
you answer, but it's l📖ike really figuring out what that CTA, what that one thing is that you want people
to do. And we've seen in 🍸t𒀰he past, the more things that you have, the more options for people to
click on, the more confusing it potentially can be, the harder it is to𒈔 convert because people🐼 don't
know which way t🐠o go. So it's really important to think about those things
Alex
0:07:41
and StoryBrand does a great job of doing exactly that. So my next quest𒈔ion, right, what happens
when people don't use StoryBrand or they don't implement this correctly and maybe s🔯om𝓀e of the
p꧅roblems that you've seen through your 🍸travels and through your experiences.
Mary
0:07:55
I see,🎃 I don't all see the go💜od ones. I see a lot of the not so good ones.
Alex
0:07:58
And we don't have 🎃to call ⛎anybody out. We can stay general here.
Mary
0:08:01
Yeah, yeah.

 

Alex
0:08:01
But what are some faux pas or things🤡 that you've seen where it didn't work or they weren't 🦩doing it
correct❀ly and how it might have negatively affected their business?
Mary
0:08:09
The biggest issue I see with companies that do not use StoryBrand and do not implemﷺent this is
they have a confusing message. So whether they are victim to the curse of k🦩nowledge, where they
are just dumping level 10 complex concepts and 🍃jargon on top of people's heads and they're sitting
there scratching their head
Mary
0:08:29
They don't understand what you're talking about that happens all t🍒he time Or they try to be clever
and they try to be funny and they're not coca🗹-cola So you can't get away with being clever You haဣve
to be clear Donald Miller says when you confuse you lose and I think that is the 🍸biggest thing that I
see with messaging the number one th🌊ing And when people are c🦂onfused it sends them directly into
the arms of your competitors.
Alex
0:08:51
Yeah, totally does.
Alex
0:08:52
And trying to be funny sometime🍬s, you may think you're funny, but it might not stick. And you might
not realize how you might be offending people. You might be really turning p🐟eople off in a way that
they're going to your competition becau𝔍se you tried ꦰto be funny and it didn't.
Mary
0:09:04
Alex, there's 𓂃so many t🐲imes when I will read a message and I will give a writer props and I'll say,
that's really clever. We can't use that. I'm sorry, because🐬 thꦯat's not the goal. That's not what we're
going for. You can sꦺave it for some of your blog content maybe,
Mary
0:09:20
but on our website weཧ have to be clear. 🦄Clarity is king.
Alex
0:09:23
Yeah, totally.
Mary
0:09:24
Another issue, and you brough💜t this up e🌺arlier, is that companies so often focus entirely on
themselves. So we𒉰 joke in my department that we call it the three little pigs of web c🔯opy because it's
wee, wee,🃏 wee, wee, wee, all the way ho🥂me because you know businesses will say we've been in
business for 25 years and this is how❀ we help people and ඣwe're so established
Mary

 

0:09:47
and we have all these credentials no one cares no one careཧs no one cares all they care about is
how you can help them a🅘nd sure you're 75 if you're of business makes you qualified to help them
but 🐻that🦂's all they care about is how you're going to help them you have to stop talking about
yourself. You have to flip 𒁃th൲at script. You have to make them the hero of the story. So that is
probably the number two thing
Mary
0:10:10
that I see people falling victim to all the time.
Alex
0:10:13
Okay.
Mary
0:10:14
The last one tha♐t I wanna bring up is lacking that clear next step. So you mentioned this a little bit
earlier with the call to action. And it is amazing to me how many websites I will see🐷 where either
there's no call to action on the page.
Mary
0:10:27
There's just no 🌱call to action, which is mind-blowing. Or they have a call to action that isn't clear♌, or
it's lukewarm, it's weak. And when people ൲don't ♈have a clear next step, they get very confused about
what they're supposed to do, and most li🌼kely, they're just gonna l💎eave.
Mary
0:10:41
They're gonna do nothing. So this is so critical to your pꦉrocess, so critical to your website, so
important to your weꦆbsite being you🙈r best salesperson that you've got to get that right.
Alex
0:10:53
Got to.
Alex
0:10:54
Got to get it right. And I've heard from a lot of ꩵbusiness owners like the common phrase or thing that
recurs a lot ✅is my website doesn't do anything for us. My website doesn't work. Our website, w𒆙e
spend all this money on our website and it doesn't convert any leads or really do anyth🌄ing.
Alex
0:11:07
And the first question shoul🍰d be like, well, let's take a look at the copy on your🌞 site and what's your
call to action and what are some of these key and fundament🥂al things that people are really missing.
Mary
0:11:15
It's true. An🌞d it's funny how many people seem mystified about the fact t𒈔hat their site doesn't do
anything for thꦫem because I think it's, these things are so basic, Al🍸ex. They're so fundamental, but I
think people miss them. It's v💟ery easy to miss about how clear, because when people try to be
competitive and they try to stand out in the market, that's 🍨when t💖hey try to get clever or that's when

 

they do the curse o🐻f knowledge thing and they dump all this stuff on you You gotta pull 💧it back. You
got to get back to those baꦍsics and you've got to really do the fundamentals right to win
Mary
0:11:47
Yeah, I couldn't agree more
Alex
0:11:48
We actually had been guide our head of web ser💜vices here on the show not too long ago 🌸And he
was sayi♐ng the same thing where if he had to cho♔ose right you put him you put one of two options
o🍌n the table and you have to pick one a 💮Very basic website where the messaging is great and
everything we're talking about right now i𝕴s locked tight and it's very clear versus a very fancy, shiny,
beautiful websit🗹e that's designed we♚ll but doesn't have any of these story brand elements. He's like,
I take the basic one all day because
Alex
0:12:14
at least that one will work and will get you the results you need. And then he said ov🎃er t♏ime you can
iterate and you can add the polish and you can add those things. But a lot of tim♊es people go right to
step two and they want to be clever, they w💛ant to be competitive, they want t⛦o be artsy, and it
doesn't always work
Alex
0:12:29
out.
Mary
0:12:30
And one of the things, one of the reasons why that happens, and I'vౠe said the curse of knowledge a
few times🅠, and that is because when you are a business and you've got, you know everyth🌃ing about
everything, about your business, what you offer, your solutions, how you help 🎃people in your head,
and that's the perspective people have when they're redoing thei𝓀r websites or they're writing their
web copy, but your user♉ doesn't have any of that. You need to bring it down from a level 10 to
maybe a level 2.
Mary
0:12:57
And if I ever look at a website and I read your hero section𒁏 and I say, what do you do?
Alex
0:13:02
What do you do?
Mary
0:13:03
That's a really bad thing.
Mary
0:13:04
That's a huge problem🐻. That is a huge problem, but it is so common. It's bananas. Yeah. So that
should be yo♕ur number one thing right now, open your website, l♊ook at your hero with the eyes of
your prospect, and𓆏 if it is not clear what you o🤡ffer, how it makes life better, and how people can get

 

Mary
0:13:22
it, you need to update that right now.
Alex
0:13:24
Yeah, that's such a great point. I thiওnk, too, it's hard to step out of the bubble. So, like, if you're clo🐼se
to it, if it's your company, it's hard to objectively♒ step out of that bubble and look at it, like you're
saying, where, like, is this header, is my home page really converting ♛or really clear? Do people
know what we do?
Alex
0:13:41
So sometimes, what would you say, like if you can't step back or if you feel too c🐼lose to it, do you
recommend having outside people come in or what do you do in a situation like that where you 🍃may
not know but you wanna kno🍷w the truth even though it may b🎃e tough to find out?
Mary
0:13:54
Yeah, so back in the olde🍌n days, I might have said, you know, ask a friend or ask someone like that.
Now, 🎶AI, Alex, I'm gonna go immediately to Gemini or chat GPT and I'm going to put that copy in
Gemini and I🥀'm going to say, what question💙s would you have after reading this about my business?
Or how would you optimiz𒉰e this to be more clear or something? Ask the
Mary
0:14:16
robots. They're very good becaus🦩e they can look at things in b꧅lack and white without any of that
industry inside stuff about you♉r company. And they can give you that black and white feedback that
you need to say this is not good enough, try writingꦓ it 🌊this way. So that would be my go-to right now.
Alex
0:14:33
That's a great call. AI♏ has been amazing with this stuff lately and it's only getting better. And I don't
want to get down the𝐆 AI rabbit hole, but with GPT 4.0, I'm really excited
Mary
0:14:42
to see what's going to come out.
Alex
0:14:43
Another episode.
Mary
0:14:44
We'll do another episode.
Alex
0:14:45
Yeah, another episode. So we talk about trust and tr🌌ansparency all the💛 time here. I feel like Marcus,
that's l♔ike his staple. That's what we represent here at Impact. How does that play in𓄧to StoryBrand
when you're trying to tell a story

 

Alex
0:14:56
and how that conveys into the website? We hit on this a little earlier, but I wanna lean a 🥀lit🧸tle deeper
into how important trust and transpa♔rency𓆏 is. For instance, pricing. A lot of people don't put pricing
on their websites
Alex
0:15:06
and they try to keep that very close t♔o the chest. So🃏 can we talk a little bit about trust and
transparency?
Mary
0:15:11
Yeah, so I wanna 🧔be very clear about this. Whi🌄le StoryBrand is indeed about telling a story, it is not
selective storytelling, and it is not emotional manipulatio🌳n. I have had p🍃eople ask about this before,
because it's a fair question.
Mary
0:15:29
It's a, oh, I am penning some fiction. I am telling a story that I want to get people to do♔ the certain
outcome baꦅsed on the things that I'm saying, and I'm s𝄹etting the stakes and then I'm setting them up
for the value prop and it can feel kind of, you know, like you might be playi꧑ng with people's emotions
because we say that at the beginning, right?
Mary
0:15:47
We're levꦅeraging storytelling principles to elicit an emotional response. That's true, that's science,
but you have to be honest and you have 𓆏to be transparent. So what this means is you cannot shy
away from the messy parts o𒁏f the𒈔 hero's journey. You can't. Be honest about that. And we talk about
this in They Ask, You Answer all the time.
Mary
0:16:10
When we talk about pro♛blems, when we talk about anything messy regarding♋ the journey, you are
being more authentic. And people see that ꦰas you being more authentic. And that builds trust. You
can't hide that stuff. And it also mea✅ns being realistic about what your solution can do. So you have
to also not over promise people things right when you're t⭕elling the story. Be very honest
Mary
0:16:36
about what your solution can do. Paint the pic💮tu♏re accurately of how it makes life better and people
will be more apt to buy into that and to believe in that. So you mentioned cost. Cost is one of t💃hose
things that people again They recoil at a little bit because they say oh if I put cost on my 😼website
People are gonna get fr๊eaked out and I need them to talk꧅ to my sales people first They have to
know all the reasons why i🍨t does cost that way right our sales people are so great
Alex
0:17:04
They're gonna be able to convert them right and hopefully your sales p꧂eople are that great
Mary
0:17:08

 

But the reality 🍌is the reality is that if you don't have pricing on your website, they're going to think you
have something to hide. They're🌌 going to get frustrated because they might find it somewhere else,
and they might not 🐻even give your salesperson the time of day to explain the way you want them to
explain. If you put it right out there, it automatically b꧙uilds that trust.
Mary
0:17:31
It automatically makes you transparent. And that's what storytelling rea👍lly should be about, is about
an open dialogue, about an honest dialogue where yo🐟u're inviting questions. You want to i🔴nvite any
question that anyone has, bring itꦫ on, we're going to answer it for you. I mean, that's the framework,
right?
Alex
0:17:49
That's the dream.
Mary
0:17:50
That's the whole thing.
Mary
0:17:51
That's the dream. And that is what is, at t𒉰he end of the day, going to get you 🥂more sales.
Alex
0:17:56
Get you more sales and establish you as a trusted voice in whatever space or industry that you're in🎶.
Mary
0:18:00
Absolutely.
Alex
0:18:01
So for💮 business owners out there, for leaders out there that are marketing their s꧟ales leaders, how
do they go about implementing this, right? Ob🍬viously, read the book, go check out StoryBrand if you
haven't, but once you get acclimated with StoryBrand, wha🦂t's the best way to go
Alex
0:18:15
about starting to imওplement this and to create a culture around this within your organization?
Mary
0:18:19
I'm gonna say it again, you just said it, but I'm going to say again, if you want to get started wit🦂h
StoryBrand, you must read ꧙the book. You 🍸must read the book. It is a quick read, it's a great read, it's
engrossing, but i﷽t's go🦄ing to give you all the information you need
Mary
0:18:33
toܫ re🎃ally understand how powerful this framework is and to really help you understand how to clarify
your message. Because I didn't get into, it's🍰 a seven♋-part framework. I didn't even get into the seven
different elements of storytellin♓g that you need to know.

 

Mary
0:18:47
That's go🍌ing to explain everything and help you 🍌understand how to go about filling out that
framework basically. The s൩econd thing, you need to decide how much you're going to💖 invest in this
buyer's journey and how deep of a journey y🍰ou're going to go on. And with any journꦡey, you're going
to need a guide. And I knoꦫw when I'm saying this, Alex, I know someone's going to be like, all right,
here's
Mary
0:19:09
the pitch.
5
0:19:10
We're getting the pitch for the guide.
Mary
0:19:11
Yes, Impact helps people with this. Yes,🐠 we run these workshops all the🐬 time because it does help
peoওple because the problem I see with people trying to do this on th🔴eir own, and I have seen people
try 🐈to do it on their own, is ✃that there is no structure.
Mary
0:19:26
There's no exper🐲tꦫ guide who's been trained on how to get the most out of this. So what happens is a
few things, either they have 10 stan𓃲ding meetings where they just end up going around in circles
and wasting a ton of time where nothing actually gets don🌄e.
Mary
0:19:41
They have a lot of conversations. Not💎hing gets done. Or t🐟hey have arguments because they can't
agree on the hero or the problem or what that aspirational identity should be, and 💟all they do is
bicker. And♎ ther𓃲e's no mediator there to get them back on track.
Alex
0:19:57
Right, and to move the 𝓀conversation forward in a meaningful way.
Mary
0:20:00
Exactly. And some people will even fill out th✱at seven part framework that I was talking about. And
then they'll sit there and say, how do ℱI implement this? What do I do? I mean, you filled out the
sheet, but how do I get my entire company on board with Sto🍬ryBrand? How do we roll this out? How
do we actually put it on our website? Becauseꩲ it's not a one to one framework to website
necessarily.
Mary
0:20:20
There's wor🧸k that has to b💫e done. But how do we implement it? And then they get stuck there. So
you can go it alone, and you might end▨ 🎉up wasting a ton of time, you might end up with a ton of
headaches, you might end up

 

Mary
0:20:34
with some fighting and not talking to�𝓰� your CEO for the next three weeks. Whatever it is, I've seen it
all. So the guide is really what's going to ensure that y꧅ou end up with a clear m♕essage, you
understand how to roll it out to your company,
Mary
0:20:48
and you end up with that websi♚te that's going to tell that story and clarify your message to the world.
Alex
0:20:54
Totally, totally. And accountability is a huge piece too. And thaꦑt's som✱ething that coaches, it doesn't
have to be imp♊act, but in general, coaches keep you accountable and make sure t🌟hat on a weekly
basis
Alex
0:21:04
you're doing the thing♑s and you'🌳re checking in and if not, you're putting a plan together to make sure
that you can cat🎐ch up or do what you need to 🔯do to stay on track with the goals that you set out from
the get go. So, it's really important.
Mary
0:21:15
Yeah, I just talked to a client, I'm not kidding you,ꦿ just this week, where we were talking about
StoryBrand, and they said, you know, we're gonna give it a shot, we🍌're gonna, they had a meeting
about it, and he came back to me and he said,
Mary
0:21:26
Mary, he's like, I don't know what we're doin🎀g. And he said, we had th𓂃e meeting, we went in circles, I
need h❀elp, like how, 🐻cause I'm not gonna push, I'm not gonna say, you know, we can help you with
that. And they tried ℱit and he really said, I feel like we wasted t🌱wo hours.
Mary
0:21:45
So, headache, not worth it.
Alex
0:21:47
Well, and sometimes too, having a g💝uide. Like, this is an analogy, but like,🎃 if you're going on a hike,
you're going vacation somewhere, and you're gonna go on a hike in the woods and you🍷've never
been in these woods before, you shou❀ld probably go with somebody
Alex
0:21:59
that knows the woods and knows the trails so🌌 you don't get los💟t or something like that. And it's the
same idea here where it's like you should pai💃r with a coach or wi♐th somebody that's done this
before, that's familiar with it, that can do all🅷 the th🃏ings that we just talked about. Keep you
accountable, keep you focused, figure out how to have the right conversat🐬💟ions that
Alex
0:22:14

 

you're not wasting time and energy and you're ge𓄧tting very pointed in how to m🥀ake these changes.
Mary
0:22:18
I'm glad you said the right conver🗹sations because it really is so crucial t𒅌o have someone someone to
put the guardr🉐ails on because anyone can have a conversation about who's our cha🌜racter. Anyone
can say, who's our villain? What are our problems? And come uꩲp with some stuff. But if you don't
have someone who knows, you know, for exa♋mple, someone says, okay, well,
Mary
0:22:40
our problem is, you know, that the industry is really complex. And then you♈ have to say, but what is
the root problem here? What is the root cause? And peopl🍷e often don't think that way. So you need
someone who's been here 🐓before. You need someone who's gone through the training,
Mary
0:22:56
who's worked with so many different industries to b♉e able to get you to where you have to go
because you might not know that you c🌠ꦕame up with the wrong answer.
Alex
0:23:04
So true.
Alex
0:23:05
All right, so we know the importance of having a coach. ✱I also want to ask you since we got you here
and you work with a lot of clients, how does this play into the day-to-day for your team and the 🌳web
team🧔 building websites for impacts clients? Do y⛦ou always recommend StoryBrand?
Alex
0:23:19
How does that play into how you build and design sites for our clꦬientele?
Mary
0:23:23
Yeah, so regardless of what shape your website is in, regardless of your budget, regardless💦 of
anything, starting with StoryBrand is t꧋able stakes for doing a new website. And𒅌 some people might
think, you k✅now, messaging first. Well,♒ we have to talk about design. We have to talk about the page
strategy. We have to talk about things like that.
Alex
0:23:42
I want to look at color swatches.
3
0:23:44
Right?
Mary
0:23:45
Yeah. But we say you have to work with a coach first to🧔 go through the StoryBr😼and workshop so that
you can clarify your 🍃messaging because that is going to be the thing that anchors your home page.

 

Your whole story is anchored around that. That is the first 🎉thing that all of our clients who go🐷 through
a website redesign that we expect you to do. And we eꦓxpect you to read the book.
Mary
0:24:07
We e🔴xpect your whole organizat🥂ion who's going to be in the workshop to read the book and then to
go through that exercise. And every single one comes out of that workshop feeling immense𝔉ly better
about their story, about their message and saying, My gosh, I do🌳n't eve🦂n know if we knew how
discombobꦍulated and tangled ou🦹r message was until we went through this, and now it is so much
clearer, so much s𒆙impler. And then for me, it's a pr♎etty easy application to the website. There are
some things that we hav🐎e to do to it to make it fit into that inherent structure
Mary
0:24:41
that I talked about. But it flows so beautifully from doing that workshop int🤡o our homepage 💦copy, and
then we understand how to tell that story on our service pages, our solution pages, what✱ever they
are. And it really mak🐈es the messaging aspect of a website a lot better.
Alex
0:25:02
🥃It makes sense, too, because we do the same thing in the video world, where if you don't have a
script that's 🍨locked down, you shouldn't really g✱o shoot. Because inevitably what happens is you
sh൲oot it, and then in the editing room, the client will go, ìOh, can we change this copy and c♚an we
change this?î And that means you have to go back aꦡnd reshoot, which I feel like for a developer, itís
probably
Alex
0:25:20
the same thing. If you don♍ít have that copy and the branding laid out correctly and you develop this
whole page or multiple pages and then the client sees it and theyíre like, ìWe donít like th✤e copy.î
Youíre basically hitting the restart button againﷺ and having to go back to square one. So it sou🌞nds
like doing this framework and using StoryBrand allows you to hash a🀅ll these things out ahead of
time. And then once you get it hashed out, it just stream✨lines
Alex
0:25:41
the whole process from building out the site and getting it to wh♈ere it needs to be.
Mary
0:25:44
Absolutely. You can do it later. I wi🃏ll say it makes things harder. So different people have different
budgets. They have different ways they have to go about doing things. And I have had peo🅰ple not
start with a story brand
Mary
0:25:56
workshop, and in💙evitably, we get the website done. The websit𒅌e looks great. The coach will come
🃏back and say, guess what? We're going back to th꧙at home page. And the first thing we're going to
do is we're go🌸ing to upda𓆉te that story because it is so critical, so hugely important to the success of
any conversion path that you have on your website. So we might💎 do it out of order. It could happen,
Mary
0:26:21

 

but it can't be ignore🧜d. It has to get done a🃏t some point.
Alex
0:26:24
Yeah, abཧsolutely. This has🍎 been a great conversation. Any final thoughts? Anything else that
business❀ leaders or people that ar🍒e thinking about StoryBrand are thinking about redesigning their
website that they sho𒆙uld know about before we close?
Mary
0:26:36
I will just say, aga▨in, e✤ven though this is a very basic thing, even though this is a very fundamental
thing, it shou🍃ld be a top priority th🎃ing that you do. Because I have people come to me all the time
and they'll say, oh, I need more qualified lea🔯ds. We need more of this, we need more of that.
Mary
0:26:53
We're not converting well. When I talked before about root causes, a lot of the time that rꩲoot cause
can be traced back to your 💫messaging, and it can be traced back to not having cleꦇar messaging and
having confusing messaging.
Mary
0:27:06
So I usually will tell people to go back to home base, start there, cl꧑arify yo♍ur message first, and then
we can get into conversion rate🐟 optimization and things like that. But you can't overlook it.
Alex
0:27:20
Well said. Very well said. I couldℱn't agree more. Mary Brown, everybody, if they have questions or
follow-up questions, if they want to learn how to imple🧜ment, if they want to talk ꧑to you about
coaching or whatever the 🌜case may be, ho𒅌w can they get in touch with you?
Mary
0:27:30
Yeah. So I can beꦛ found in Impact Plus. I love hanging out in Impact Plus and I love when people
send me messag♈es there, so please do. I am there to help. Or you can find me on the website and I
have, you k💜now, my🅘 door is open. I do have office hours for things like this.
Alex
0:27:46
Excellent. Mary, thanks for being o෴n the show. Yeah, happy to be here. Excellent. And for
everybody out there listening and watching, this is Endless Cus💛tomers🎃. Appreciate you tuning in and
w♏e'll see you on the next episode. Appreciate you tuning in and we'll see you on the next episode.
Bye!

 

About This Episode

"If you confuse, you lose," Donald Miller reminds us in his 澳洲幸运5官方开奖结果体彩网:StoryBrand framework. When it comes to business websites, companies often go clever or vague, leaving visitors scratching their heads and thinking, “Okay, but what do you actually do?” Miller’s principle underscores the importance of clarity and precision — and reminds us of just how quickly you can lose 🧔someone’s attention.  

In this episode of Endless Customers, Alex Winter speaks with Mary Brown, IMPACT’s lead web strategist, about how StoryBrand can help businesses refine their messaging to deliver a better website expꦺer♕ience.

”People naturally connect with stories,” she explains, and advises businesses to “leverage stories to help people em🍌otionally connect to your༺ messaging." 

Unlike traditional marketing approaches, StoryBrand flips the script, positioning the customer in the center (as  “the hero” in Miller’s language), with a focus on solving that customer’s problem instead of boasting about business accomplishments.This shift helps to 澳洲幸运5官方开奖结果体彩网:build trust and set clear stakes, showing custo📖mers what they stand to gain by choosing your product or service.

Connect with Mary

Mary Brown is the lead website strateg🐠ist at IMPACT, and she has lent her expertise to website projects in dozens of industries. 

Get to know Mary

Connect with Mary on

Learn more about how IM𒅌PACT’s team delivers the website your customers want

Keep Learning

• Watch: 澳洲幸运5官方开奖结果体彩网:Is a New Website Worth the Cost?
• Read: 澳🎃洲幸运5官方开奖结果体彩网:How to Hire Your In-House We🐈bsite Specialist
• Test your site: 澳洲幸运5官方开奖结果体彩网:Free Website Pꦐerformance Assessment

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